Print this articleKerux Interview: Jerry Dykstra
Executive Director of the Christian Reformed Church in North America
In June 2006, the annual Synod of the Christian Reformed Church in North America confirmed Jerry Dykstra as the new Executive Director of the denomination. Now into his fourth month as executive director, Dykstra expressed clear confidence in his role at the helm as well as his focus and vision for the denomination.
Kerux staff writer Allen Kleine Deters sat down with Dykstra to discuss Dykstra's new role and his vision for the Church and the denomination.
Kerux: How are things going for you in your new position?
Dykstra: It's going very well. It's been interesting and enjoyable; it certainly is a challenge. Any time you start a new position, and particularly one that involves everything that's involved in this position, it's a very steep learning curve. But that's okay. That's part of the fun of it and the challenge of it.
Kerux: With all of the new ropes to learn, which ones do you feel are the greatest priority for you?
Dykstra: The greatest priority for me is to implement the priority that the denomination has adopted, which is creating and sustaining healthy congregations. Then the question is, "How do you begin to implement that?" Implementation comes at many different levels. My primary commitment and focus in terms of, say, the first six months to a year is to engage with classes and congregations, pastors, and with members of the Christian Reformed Church throughout North America. So my travel schedule is heavy, but that's okay. I get out and meet with people and am finding out how much they appreciate that opportunity to sit down to talk and share what's on their hearts and minds.
The thing that's really been impressive to me is how many good things are happening in the Christian Reformed Church. It's absolutely amazing. I don't think most people realize the scope and the extent of the impact that the ministries of the Christian Reformed Church have. It's not just limited to things we traditionally think of like missionaries serving overseas. That's certainly a big part of it, but I think a wonderful example is the French-speaking ministry of the Back to God Hour. It's phenomenal. It touches millions of people; churches are being planted and people are starting churches without even having any one-to-one, face-to-face. They're just basically listening to messages and through hearing they end up reading the scriptures, then get involved with Bible studies and correspondence. That's just one example. Then you multiply that out. The Christian Reformed World Relief Council went into the countries impacted by the tsunami. And now some of those governments are coming to the CRWRC and saying, "help us to rebuild our communities," because they had contracts with other organizations that weren't coming through.
I get to taste all of that and see all of that in a way that most people don't. It's a real exciting part of the position.
Kerux: Those are some of the "sweet spots" that you were talking about in your latest Banner article?
Dykstra: Yeah, you got it.
Kerux: How about some of those sweet spots at home? What are some of the things you're hearing at the local church level?
Dykstra: Local churches are struggling. Anyone who is aware and involved in churches recognizes that. But it's too easy to focus on the struggles. There are challenges in ministry today unlike any time in history. We're a culture that is in some ways post-Christian. We use a lot of different language for that. But the norm today isn't a family going to church together on Sunday morning; that's the exception today. So the challenges for local congregations are huge. But, at the same time, the way in which I hear of people's lives being changed and transformed through the work of the local congregations is amazing.
One of the things I do when I meet with groups of local pastors — and I've been meeting with small groups of pastors throughout Canada and the United States in groups of about twenty pastors and elders to talk about sustaining congregational excellence and what that might look like and what that might mean to them in their particular communities — one of the questions I ask them is, "What is God doing in the Christian Reformed Church?" It's amazing the answer you get when you ask the right question. I could ask, "What are the problems that you're facing?" and I would get a litany of all of the struggles. And those are legitimate. But at the same time, when you ask the question, "What do you see God doing?", it puts a whole different spin on it. All of a sudden people begin to say, "Wow, look what God is doing." Lives are being changed. Families are being changed and relationships are being rebuilt. Not only relationships between people, but relationships between churches, relationships between people and God, and relationships with Jesus Christ who may or may not have been part of their life in the past. All this because the local church cares.
I think the need for the church in local communities is larger now than it has ever been. And yet there tends to be a focus not on the local congregation, but there tends to be a focus on all the programs and all the ministries and all the glitz and all the glamour. There's nothing wrong with glitz and glamour; I enjoy it too. But are we transforming lives? That, to me, is the bottom line question.
Kerux: Your statements go along what you said at Synod 2005 when you were appointed the denominational Ministries Director. You mentioned the impact the passing of your daughter, Stephanie, had on your ministry. You said, "It changed my focus, my style of ministry, my priorities." How does that impact your focus now, and how do you carry that over into this position and leading the denomination?
Dykstra: I think it has a huge impact. Stephanie's death was one of those huge things, as you would expect it would be in my life and in Linda's life. One of the things I came to realize is that some of the things that used to be important weren't important anymore. We worry a lot about finances and worry about what kind of jobs our kids are going to get, whether or not they'll be successful and where they're going to live, whether they're going to be near by and all of this stuff. All of a sudden I realized, not that I hadn't realized it before, but it wasn't as predominant in my life, and that is, "What really matters?" What really matters ultimately is a relationship with Jesus Christ. When I stood at Stephanie's memorial service, I could testify to the fact that she was in a relationship with Jesus Christ now and for eternity. That's what the passion in her life was all about. It made me realize that my ministry has to reflect that kind of passion toward the Gospel, toward Jesus, toward the Kingdom. The other stuff — nice? Yes. Important? No. It's not nearly so important.
So then when you get into the church and you argue about worship styles and you start to have fights about the colors of the carpet or when you have fights about whether Sunday School is going to be before, during or after the service, I don't have patience for that anymore. Maybe I should have more patience. Maybe I'll get it again. But right now I don't have it. What matters to me is that the kids in the Sunday School program know Jesus Christ, and if they don't, then there is something wrong. And if we have to have Sunday School at midnight, that's fine if that's what it's going to take to do it. It isn't [supposed to be] "It's not convenient for me because I have dinner at so-and-so's house after the morning service." It's about what is important to me to transform lives and communities. That is a phrase that I didn't have articulated at that time in my life, but now have it articulated through the work of the denomination and its vision statement.
We're about transforming lives and communities. That's why we exist. I've become passionate about it, because I have come to recognize that that is what ultimately matters. We have got to reshape all of our thinking. And so the question that I will constantly ask people every time I engage them, every time they bring in a new program, every time they have a suggestion for ministry, my question is going to be, "Does that transforms lives and communities world-wide?" Is it the gospel of Jesus Christ transforming lives? If it is, go for it. If it isn't, stop what you're doing and get back on track.
I recently had a conversation with someone who is involved in a mental health program of a Christian organization. He was saying that he's heard from pastors that the real need in churches is marriages. Marriages are in trouble and marriages are falling apart. No. The heart of a marriage is that relationship with Jesus Christ. We often do lose sight of that.
Kerux: Perhaps a little like how liberation theology has its place, but it has also turned us away from the real focus?
Dykstra: Exactly. True social redemption, true community redemption, ultimately can only come through a relationship with God. The only way you will have a relationship with God is through Jesus Christ. Not in a simplistic way. I'm not that naive to say, "If you believe in Jesus your life is going to be good." There are some who would like to portray that. But it seems to me that if you don't have the basis in a relationship with Christ, that is then going to impact all of your life, then you've got nothing. It's so central to what the calling of the church is.
Kerux: With the vision and focus you have, what do you say to folks like that who may not want to hear what you're saying?
Dykstra: [Laughs] Now that's a loaded question! It's a legitimate question that you can go so many different directions with. When you talk about people not hearing what you have to say, that premise in itself needs some thought. I think people DO want to hear your vision. I think it's because we haven't had a vision that we've focused on the problems, and we have problems. If we can get in front of the churches and in front of the people and truly proclaim the hope in Jesus Christ and where he wants his church to be, we can paint that vision in such a way that people go, "I want a piece of that." This shouldn't be that foreign to our way of thinking. Madison avenue does it all the time. They put this image of an automobile in front of you and say, "this is what you could be driving". Nobody from the advertising company puts a picture of an old clunker out there and says, "Isn't it terrible that you're driving this old piece of junk, this is what you should be driving." Our responsibility as leaders is to say, "This is what God has in mind and what God wants for his people." Not wealth and prosperity, but a relationship with him. This whole idea that somehow you accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you are therefore going to go to heaven is biblical, but you're going to experience in eternity what you experienced on earth — a relationship with God on earth is a relationship with God in eternity. The other is true as well; no relationship with God on earth is no relationship with God in eternity. It isn't rocket science. It's a simple progression of that wonderful relationship we have through Christ. That's the vision you have to give to people.
There will always be those who go, "Yeah, but..." Some people consider that to be a single word. The fact of the matter is that those people are going to be there. It doesn't mean that we just walk over people with the vision. There is also the necessity for first steps to showing the people the way to achieve the vision. In fact, if you put a vision out in front of people and don't help them understand how to get to that vision, all that does is create frustration. Frustration breeds anger and then people will pull back that much more. They'll say, "The last guy who came through gave us vision, but we couldn't get there because the vision was unattainable or we didn't have any help getting there." That's why when I meet with pastors and churches and paint a vision of the CRC and the objectives identified I also ask the question, "What can we do as a denomination to help you reach that vision?" We have to consider how we can do it together. The "we" is understood as "us". The denomination isn't an office at 2850 Kalamazoo. The denomination is the churches.
Kerux: Do you think people have lost sight of that? Don't people often think that Synod is going to tell us what to do and don't even have a sense of how the church government works — that people have a lot more say than they think they do?
Dykstra: I think for the most part that is true. I think, both from the standpoint of not understanding, but also, yeah, I think as Cal Bremer was asked at 2005 Synod what the biggest challenge facing the churches was, and he was right — he said an independent spirit. Some call it congregationalism. The point was that churches are kind of focused on themselves and the needs of their particular community. And I think there's a need for that. For too many years we were willing to send money to plant churches elsewhere. "We don't need any churches here. Our community is just fine, thank you very much." But I think that through some good work and through good leadership on the part of Home Mission, but also on the part of others who said, "You need to look at your community and reaching this community for Christ. What about planting a church not across the continent or across the ocean, but across town. How are you going to meet the needs of a community that's changing?" They asked some hard questions and churches began focusing on these things. And in the process probably went too far in that direction and became less concerned about the broader issues. And so what Synod did then became somewhat immaterial and irrelevant to our lives. "What agencies do, they do. We're not doing that, we're not doing it." And the ministry share rather than a common covenant commitment toward doing ministry collaboratively was seen more of an obligation than in investment... So then we get into the issue of churches trying to figure out ways to reduce the number of members on their roles so they don't have as great a ministry share obligation. To me that's upside down thinking. It's not about how can I pay less. It's about what can we do to expand the kingdom by way of joint ministries and collaboration? We need to find that balance.
Kerux: We need to pool our resources.
Dykstra: The pool is in my backyard. Jesus said to start in Jerusalem, then Judea, Samaria then to outer most parts of the world. He was probably on to something.
Kerux: What can you tell us about what we may be facing as ministers and leaders in the church?
Dykstra: There is a change that has appeared in the church culture. The role of the pastor has changed. That role, in some ways is far more difficult than it has ever been. Expectations are higher. Demands are higher. Time commitments are greater. At the same time there is a new relationship between a pastor and the congregation where they function more as a team. The role of the pastor is less that of the Domeni, lord, ruler and final authority in all matters pertaining from golf to communion. That idea is gone. Some of that is healthy. Now churches are working as teams and the responsibility of the team leader is just that, as a leader. That is a very different style of leadership. That is a great challenge.
The other thing is that churches are not beyond and can be in many situations like dysfunctional families. Then the pastor becomes a lightning rod for things that have nothing to do with the pastor. So pastors need to be aware of that. They need to surround themselves with a good support system and not have a Polly Anna-ish idea of what it's going to be like to pastor a new church. It's hard work. All of the wonderful expectations that one might have going in can soon be shattered by the reality of the mundane. Very seldom is it the big things that get us. We're used to dealing with crisis. It's the gnats, its' the mosquitoes, it's the flies that get us. We're out their watching for the attack dog. But we know how to deal with the attack dog. It's the mosquitoes we don't know how to deal with. They're irritants that we keep brushing off, but they keep coming back. And some carry malaria.
Some people come in to the ministry with a savior complex. I shudder at some of the things I read and hear sometimes from pastors who didn't make it. It's understandable why they didn't make it. They weren't coming in to serve the kingdom. They were coming in to somehow satisfy their own needs.
Kerux: What would you say to encourage CTS students who are going into minisitry?
Dykstra: You have to be in an incredibly good relationship with Jesus Christ. You need to focus on your own spiritual walk and own spiritual health. You need to understand you are part of something far bigger than yourself. You are part of the Church. You're called to serve. So be willing to be a shepherd that walks among the sheep.
I remember when I was asked to do a charge to a pastor at his installation. I said to him one thing, "Love them." I'm not asking you to like them. Love them in the same way that Christ loved you — unconditional love that is not based on what they do or do not do. Not a love based on an expectation of what they ought to do. But love them because they are redeemed in Jesus Christ. And if you love them, you will learn to like them.
Love is an act of the will. People in the church are not always loveable, but then neither am I and neither are you. That's nothing new. It's like a marriage. You start with infatuation, but loving your spouse is the act of the will not your emotion. If that were not the case my wife probably wouldn't be with me. [Laughs]
Be realistic and well prepared. Finding a good mentor is critical. But above all, love them.
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